摘要：曾出演电影《惊天魔盗团》的演员“卷西”杰西·艾森伯格（Jesse Eisenberg），分享了他在担任导演时独特的创作动力。他通过对焦虑和恐惧的重新定义，将其转化为前进的动力。他揭示了领导能力与谦逊之间的微妙平衡，以及在合作中如何鼓励他人展现最佳表现。

曾出演电影《惊天魔盗团》的演员“卷西”杰西·艾森伯格（Jesse Eisenberg），分享了他在担任导演时独特的创作动力。他通过对焦虑和恐惧的重新定义，将其转化为前进的动力。他揭示了领导能力与谦逊之间的微妙平衡，以及在合作中如何鼓励他人展现最佳表现。

When I think about like the kind of motivating factors for me, you know, it's effort and you know, talent and creativity and all that stuff.

我有时会思索驱动我进步的是什么，努力、天赋和创造力等等。

But I cannot underestimate how often I'm just driven by anxiety and fear.

但焦虑和不安对我的推动作用也是不可忽视的。

You and I are both very self-hating.

你和我都具有自我厌恶的特质。

A lot of the things that motivate me are like kind of negative motivators, misery, self-consciousness, I would say self-hatred, and a lot of fear.

我的动力源泉往往是负面情绪，痛苦、自我审视，或者说自我厌恶以及无处不在的不安。

I worry all the time that my last job is going to be the final one I'll ever have in my life.

我总是会担心上一部接的戏可能就是我职业生涯的终点。

But you know, when I meet people in other fields who have kind of forged their own paths, they have the exact same story.

但有趣的是，我发现那些立足于不同领域的人们，也都会如此。

And it just occurred to me that this is kind of what like great people are motivated by.

这让我意识到，焦虑是许多卓越者的驱动力。

They're amazing at their job, they're creative, they think outside the box, but they're also worried that the next time is not going to go well.

她们不仅非常专业，还具有创造力，总能打破常规，但她们也常常担心自己会搞砸下一个工作。

Once you're able to kind of reframe that anxiety as fuel, as motivation, as care, you worry less and are motivated more.

然而我们一旦学会将这种焦虑转化为燃料、动力、责任心，忧虑就会减少，而动力会增加。

Hi, my name is Jesse Eisenberg.

大家好，我是杰西·艾森伯格。

I'm known as an actor.

大家都知道我是一名演员。

I also write and direct and I forgot the other thing that I was supposed to say because I was... Sorry.

我还是一名编剧兼导演，我忘词了......抱歉。

Hi, I'm Jesse Eisenberg.

大家好，我是杰西·艾森伯格。

I'm an actor, writer, and director.

我是一名演员兼编剧兼导演。

And the most recent thing I did was those three things on a movie called "A Real Pain."

我最近主要在制作电影《真正的痛苦》。

Probably it's important to dispel the myth that actors are full of themselves and you know, they're in a movie so they must be so confident all the time.

有一个关于演员的迷思需要被破除，人们总以为演员眼里只有自己，因为她们参演电影，所以时时刻刻都很自信。

As an actor, I've had to cope with like kind of being a public person and all that entails because strangely, I often do kind of receive criticism in places that I never expected to receive it.

作为一个演员，我不得不应对成为公众人物所面临的挑战。我总是在意想不到的情况下受到批评。

Sometimes people say to me on the street, "Hey, man, I thought you were okay in that movie." And they say it as like almost an apology and it makes you feel even worse.

有时我会在街上遇到人们跟我说，“嘿，兄弟，我觉得你那部电影演得还行。”听起来更像是一种违心的道歉，这让我更难受。

You know, you care like anybody else who works on anything, how the thing is going to be received.

人人都会在意他人如何评价自己的成果。

And sometimes for an actor it's heightened that much more because it's being written about everywhere.

而演员更甚，因为铺天盖地都是观众对你的讨论。

If you're somebody with the inclinations that I have towards self-doubt, towards self-criticism, what I have created was essentially kind of a bubble that allows me to work at my best.

如果你跟我一样，常常自我怀疑，自我批评，也可以试试像我一样，建设一种安全区，让自己用最佳的状态去工作。

It sounds strange, but I don't watch the movies I've been in.

听起来有点奇怪，我不会去看自己参演的电影。

I don't read any reviews of movies that I'm in.

也不会去看相关的影评。

I go so far as to not bike past streets that are overflowing with movie advertisements 'cause it makes me self-conscious on my way to work.

我骑车去上班的时候甚至避开那些挂满电影广告的街道，它们会让我很不安。

And I know it sounds a little bit like I'm making my life unusually difficult and I should just confront those things, I should just hold the tarantula in my hands, so to speak, bike past those movie posters.

这听起来像是我自己给自己的生活制造困难，而我应该学会直面那些东西，直面恐惧，也就是上班的时候直接经过那些广告。

But the truth is I found I am most effective by not thinking about that stuff, by not becoming obsessed with something that I can't control.

但事实是，我发现当我不去思考外界的评论，不执着于自己控制不了的事情时，我就变得更有能量，更能产出。

Maybe it comes from a place of fear or weakness, but to me it's the only way I can kind of self-motivate.

也许这是源于恐惧和脆弱，但这是唯一可以让我自我鼓励的方式。

I've recently started directing.

我最近开始当导演。

I've directed two movies now.

我已经执导了两部电影。

Being in this kind of new strange place of like being a manager of people so to speak has not been the easiest transition for me.

尝试这种有点像做领导的工作，对我来说是充满挑战的转型。

I realized pretty quickly I am not a great leader in the traditional sense of being able to kind of lead a group into battle.

我很快意识到自己并非传统意义上能够带领着团队冲锋陷阵的好领导。

My advantage was not so much in talking loudly about the thing we need to get and screaming at people that the sun's going down, but I am very good at knowing what everybody does and how to kind of get the best from them.

我并不擅长给人们制定目标，或者给大家下最后期限，但我非常擅长了解每个人的技能，以及如何让她们发挥出最佳水平。

So if you're somebody who feels like me, somebody who feels like they would not be able to lead an army into battle, try to think of all of the wonderful leaders that you've worked for.

如果你和我一样，感觉无法带队冲锋，不妨回想一下那些你认为优秀的领导是怎么做的。

The best leaders I worked for were really kind of like the quiet, sweet directors who motivated in subtle, sweet, quiet, relatable ways.

我遇见过最好的导演是那种安静、温柔的人，她们用一种巧妙亲和、润物无声的方式激励团队。

The leaders that you like working for are probably not the kind of bombastic, confident person who's the loudest in a room.

那些你喜欢与之共事的领导，大概不会是一个夸夸其谈、自信满满的显眼包。

I imagine what you might discover is that the leaders that you really liked working for are probably a lot like you.

我猜你也发现了，自己喜欢的领导者身上大概有许多和你一样的特质。

How did they do it?

她们是怎么做的？

How did they excel?

她们是如何脱颖而出的呢？

I've only directed two movies and I've interviewed people for various jobs, for production design, for editing, for music composition, for costumes, for cinematography who have done 40 movies in their position.

我只执导过两部电影，面试了许多人，美术指导、剪辑师、作曲、服装设计、摄影指导，她们参与了40部电影的制作。

And I've done one or two.

而我只拍过一两部。

Most people I'm working with know 1,000 times more about their jobs than I do.

对她们自己岗位的了解，我大多数的同事都比我深刻1000倍。

And so it's important to kind of defer to them and to kind of be humble, be open to learning, and also be able to kind of provide a space for other people to excel.

谦虚地听取她们的声音是很重要的，用开放的心态去学习，给大家提供自我发挥的空间。

I am a person who very much wants to collaborate with somebody who has as good or better ideas than I do.

我很喜欢和那些与我相比有过之而无不及的人合作。

I am not somebody who wants to be right, and that has motivated me to find people who are very collaborative.

我不是那种喜欢证明自己的人，这驱使我不断寻找真正具有协作精神的伙伴。

That kind of humility, that kind of eagerness to learn from others and the eagerness to defer to others has just been a great asset for me.

这种谦虚、见贤思齐的品质、尊重别人的品质对我而言是一笔巨大的财富。

You learn very quickly in acting class that acting, like almost every other collaboration, requires reacting to the other person, to the collaborator's intention and performing in conjunction with it.

如果你去上表演课很快就会明白，表演，和其它需要协作的活动一样，需要和其他人互动，回应伙伴的意图，与之配合表演。

The movie I just finished directing, the two leading characters are played by me and the wonderful actor Kieran Culkin, who's on "Succession" and is an absolute genius performer in ways that I don't even know audiences are fully aware of because I got to see him improvise in these incredibly complicated character moments.

我刚完成一部电影的执导，我和另外一位优秀演员基南·卡尔金是主演，他出演过《继承之战》，是一名有着惊人天赋的演员，我甚至觉得观众还未完全意识到这点，而我见识过他在那些极其复杂的角色情境中进行的即兴创作。

And yet it was very often not the thing that I had written and not the thing that I had expected to perform against.

但很多时候，他的表演与我的剧本以及预期中的效果大相径庭。

So theoretically, I should have all the authority in the world to tell him exactly how I want it to be performed.

理论上来说，我作为导演有权要求他按照我想要的方式去表演。

And I discovered I think on the second day that that was not going to be effective.

但第二天我就发现这样的方式反而行不通。

That when I kind of try to micromanage his wonderful, lived in, loose performance, it was not helping him.

当我想对他作出精准严格的指导时，反而影响他精彩、真实、松弛的表演。

When you're acting in a scene, you're supposed to stand on like a little mark so that it makes the lighting look good on your face and it makes the camera framing for all the other actors appropriate.

当演员表演时，通常会有特定的站位，确保面部光线效果最佳，以及让所有演员在镜头前呈现出一个最佳的构图。

He wouldn't stand on marks.

他没法站在特定的位置。

And when I asked him to stand on a mark a few times that we did, it would stifle him.

当我好几次要求他站在一个特定的位置上，结果就会束缚他的表演。

He would work so much better when it was loose and when he was loose, he was so brilliant.

当他得到一定的自由度，他就会表现得很好，当他感觉到松弛的时候，他的演技就非常好。

When I was thinking about like kind of the priorities of the movie, the first priority of this movie is that this character is loose, alive, and complicated.

我反思什么才是这部电影的优先事项，得出的结论是，让演员呈现出松弛、鲜活且立体多面的角色才是首要的。

That is so much more important than having the actor in the exact place.

这远比演员的精准站位重要得多。

Sorry, how can I then link this back to something bigger and better?

呃呃，我等下要怎么升华我刚说的内容？

What I've discovered is that you really should not try to engineer the other person's work.

我发现一个好的领导者，不应该去过多干涉别人的工作。

You should help them achieve the thing that they do best.

应该帮助她们发挥自己最擅长的本领。

And so as a director, I was just enthralled by allowing him to fully live in this role, to be loose, to improvise, to say what was on his mind.

作为导演也应如此，我特别喜欢让他完全代入扮演的角色，松弛地表演，即兴发挥，说他心里想说的台词。

And it made the movie so much better and it made this set just this kind of wonderfully enriching, fun place.

这使电影完成得更好，使电影情节变得非常丰富，有趣。

Sometimes it might be intimidating to think about collaborating with somebody who might be more successful, more experienced in their field.

有时想到要和某个领域里更成功更老道的人合作可能会让人胆怯。

The first movie I directed starred one of the greatest film actresses of all time, Julianne Moore.

有史以来最优秀的女演员之一——朱丽安·摩尔，是我首部执导的电影中的主演。

And I had never directed a movie before, but I had acted in so many movies and I know what I wanted from a director.

而我之前没有执导过任何电影，不过我出演过很多电影，我知道我想要从导演身上获得什么。

What I love to have as an actor, from my leader, from my boss, from the director, is I love them to really pay attention to what I'm doing and give feedback on that.

作为一个演员，我希望我的领导、我的老板、我的导演，能够注意到我在做的事情，并给予反馈。

And when I was directing again this unbearably talented, shockingly astonishingly talented woman, Julianne Moore, I was so intimidated to do exactly what I always want directors to do.

当我作为导演，和朱丽安·摩尔这位才华横溢、令人惊叹的女士合作时，我却总是不敢去做我常常希望导演去做的事。

I think the reason I was probably a little intimidated was because I thought she would see me for the fraud that I must be.

我觉得我胆怯的原因是我会担心她认为我是个有水分的导演。

And so for the first week, I kind of like stayed away from her.

所以开始合作的第一周，我总是逃避和她沟通。

I didn't know if she wanted me to give feedback or to ask her to try something in a different way.

我不确定她想不想我给出反馈，或者要求她改变表演的方式。

And finally, when I just like splashed proverbial cold water in my face, I realized, no, that's exactly what, of course, she wants.

最终，我像用冷水洗了个脸一样清醒了，我意识到我的想法是错的，她当然会想要得到反馈。

That's what I would want.

我作为演员的时候也想要得到反馈。

That's what anybody would want.

任何人工作的时候都希望得到反馈。

And so I started giving her some notes and we had the most fun.

于是我开始给她反馈，我们合作得很开心。

She argued back with me, of course, sometimes when she disagreed, which is totally healthy and wonderful, an important part of the process.

当然，当她不认可某些要求时，她会与我争论，这是非常健康且良好的合作方式，也是拍电影中很重要的一部分。

And so what I discovered is being in a kind of position of intimidation with a colleague is not a sustainable place.

所以我发现了，如果你总是敬畏某位同事的话，是不利于长期合作的。

I think Julianne Moore is more talented than me.

我觉得朱丽安·摩尔比我更有才华。

I think she's a better actor than I'll ever be.

我觉得我作为演员，永远也无法达到她的高度。

I think she's smarter about stories than me, but those thoughts were not very helpful.

我觉得她对故事内容的理解比我深刻得多，但这些想法都不利于我们合作。

The helpful thoughts were, oh, I have a really funny idea for this scene and this character that she's playing, and I'm going to tell her what those are now.

能够助力电影更成功拍摄的念头应该是“关于这个情节以及她扮演的角色，我有一个非常有趣的点子，我现在应该把我的想法告诉她”。

And that's like so much more, you know, effective and such a more fun partnership to have with somebody.

这会让合作变得更有效率，也变得更愉快。

Sorry, is that okay?

呃呃，这样可以吗？

Or did I say okay?

我说得还可以不？

Yeah?

嗯？

来源：英语东